Andrew P. Napolitano joined FOX News Channel (FNC) in January 1998, and currently serves as a senior judicial analyst. He provides legal analysis every day on “The Big Story with John Gibson” and co-hosts “Fox & Friends” once a week. He also serves as a regular on “The O’Reilly Factor” and co-hosts FOX News Radio’s “Brian and The Judge.”
Wayne Simmons was recruited by the CIA in 1973 while in the U.S. Navy. He became part of an Outside Paramilitary Special Operations Group where for 27 years he worked against Narco terrorists, Arms Smugglers, Counterfeiters, Cyber-terrorist�s and Industrial and Economic Espionage.
JUDGE ANDREW NAPOLITANO: Judge Alberto Gonzales says he wouldn't support the idea of torturing terror subjects if he's confirmed as Attorney General, but is torture always a bad idea, if it can prevent an attack? Let's ask former CIA operative Wayne Simmons. He joins me now from Washington. Today's Big Question, Wayne. Should torture ever be used by American personnel to get information?
SIMMONS: Well, the answer, Judge - it's not a yes or no answer. I mean, torture - what I can tell you is, we're not going to slice someone's arm open and dump salt in the wound. I mean that's preposterous. We don't do that. If you mean am I going to make someone very, very uncomfortable, I'm absolutely gonna do that, especially if I know that the intelligence is time-sensitive. I mean that's what it comes down to. If we want to - if we can use them, these enemy combatants, over a period of time, to glean some intelligence, that's one thing. But, if I know that somebody's planted some bombs in Manhattan and we have 24 hours to find them, you can bet that 99.9% of Americans would tell me to do whatever I had to to find those bombs.
NAPOLITANO: I think you're right. I think most Americans do agree with you, Wayne, but why do we have these treaties? I counted a little while ago six of them and these statutes - I counted five of them - plus a clause of the Constitution plus an executive order that we believe is still extant that expressly prohibits torture. Are we putting on a false face?
SIMMONS: Well, I don't think so. Listen. Waterboarding is acceptable. [Waterboarding is a technique whereby the prisoner is strapped to a board, then thrust head down into water over and over again, for longer and longer periods of time, leading the captive to believe that he or she is going to eventually die. One could say it's a variation on Russian roulette.] Hooding is acceptable. Putting people in freezers, quite frankly, until they're very uncomfortable is acceptable. What I consider torture, Judge, is if we're lopping off heads, if we're cutting off digits, if we're using hammers on fingers like the enemy does to our people. But, no one seems to care about that.
NAPOLITANO: Does ..
SIMMONS: So, you know, I have a problem with those who are comin' out against us, trying to put us in jail for working against these barbarians against humanity.
NAPOLITANO: Does torture produce truthful, useful, helpful information or does the person you're making very uncomfortable just say whatever he thinks you want to hear so you'll stop?
SIMMONS: Well, I think it's both. In fact, I'm certain that it's both. Ya' hafta, ya' hafta vet the intel. Listen, you hafta vet the person. You have to process that individual. Every, every counterintelligence interrogation is different. But, I will tell you again, if it's time-sensitive, we can prove what they're telling us right away is accurate or not, so ...
NAPOLITANO: By following up on the information they've given you?
SIMMONS: Absolutely, absolutely and, listen, there are many, many, many ways to vet intel, but that old argument that I hear all the time that they don't give us accurate information, well, I guarantee you, if they give me bad intel, and I go find out it's bad intel, I'm comin' back and it's gonna be his worse nightmare.
NAPOLITANO: Can you think of anything more un-American than torture?
SIMMONS: I think torture is reprehensible in any manner, way, shape or form. I think using interrogation tactics that are acceptable to what, I believe, would be the American people, to get intelligence to protect us, anything goes. And I might add, Judge, once these, these barbarians against humanity have decided to become terrorists, their lives, as they know it [sic], are over. All bets are off against these guys.
NAPOLITANO: Does the argument that, if we torture them, they'll torture our troops, make any sense or will they harm our troops no matter how well we treat their guys when we capture them?
SIMMONS: That's exactly right, Judge. We're treating these guys with kid gloves over here. They're living in great conditions, better than they lived in in their countries. And, what are they doin' to our guys? We're watching �em on live, on video, chopping off the heads of innocents, so that's preposterous. That argument does not fly. It never has flown. Ask anyone who was in the Jap internment camps or the German internment camps.
NAPOLITANO: Wayne Simmons, former CIA operative. Well, I want you in my trench hole! Wayne, thanks for joining us tonight.
SIMMONS: Likewise.
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